Comments on: Live-Blogging Mad Men: The Debt to Cary Grant http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/ culture blogging for the good of the planet Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:26:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: David Halsted http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14890 David Halsted Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:32:00 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14890 For the past few days I've been wondering what the 1959 analog to Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" could be. "We'll Meet Again" by Vera Lynn is the best I came up with, though it was already (already?) used at the end of Dr. Strangelove in 1964. Any better ideas? For the past few days I’ve been wondering what the 1959 analog to Journey’s “Don’t Stop Believing” could be.
“We’ll Meet Again” by Vera Lynn is the best I came up with, though it was already (already?) used at the end of Dr. Strangelove in 1964.
Any better ideas?

]]> By: DonBoy http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14760 DonBoy Sun, 19 Aug 2007 04:50:01 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14760 I'm two days late, but I loved learning that Andrew Sullivan has never heard of prop departments or set designers. "Where they found those old cans"? Good gravy. I’m two days late, but I loved learning that Andrew Sullivan has never heard of prop departments or set designers. “Where they found those old cans”? Good gravy.

]]> By: Paul Levinson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14521 Paul Levinson Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:08:22 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14521 A rare, amazing gem of a series ... this Thursday's episode was especially powerful ... http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2007/08/mad-men-4-and-5-double-mad-men.html A rare, amazing gem of a series … this Thursday’s episode was especially powerful … http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2007/08/mad-men-4-and-5-double-mad-men.html

]]> By: MBunge http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14347 MBunge Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:38:08 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14347 "I think people are projecting a lot of themselves into what they are seeing. That may be a huge part of the strange phenomenon surrounding this summer series." Honestly, doesn't that apply to an awful lot of supposedly "good" or "hip" shows nowadays. Have we developed some sort of post-modern style of writing where the audience adds in to cover up the weaknesses or enhance the strengths of a creator's work? It seems like if you do something like MAD MEN or even THE SOPRANOS that people get overly exciteda about what it's supposed to be or trying to be, passing over what it actually is. Mike “I think people are projecting a lot of themselves into what they are seeing. That may be a huge part of the strange phenomenon surrounding this summer series.”

Honestly, doesn’t that apply to an awful lot of supposedly “good” or “hip” shows nowadays. Have we developed some sort of post-modern style of writing where the audience adds in to cover up the weaknesses or enhance the strengths of a creator’s work? It seems like if you do something like MAD MEN or even THE SOPRANOS that people get overly exciteda about what it’s supposed to be or trying to be, passing over what it actually is.

Mike

]]> By: Jennifer http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14260 Jennifer Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:43:18 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14260 Yes, I realize the live-blogging is over, but I just have to add that after watching last night's episode, I feel like I'm watching a high school production... people trying to act mature and of a certain era, but still gnawing the scenery. And as for women being uncomfortable then- of the women I know who were alive then, most have said there was also comfort in clearly drawn roles and that they had significant support systems. They knew what they were supposed to do and what they were to wear and to them, it may have chafed after awhile, but this was also freedom compared to what their mothers had lived through. They weren't playing that role through the eyes of someone who had lived through the 70's etc. They were forming that role with visions of women who had lived in the 30's and 40's, etc. Yes, I realize the live-blogging is over, but I just have to add that after watching last night’s episode, I feel like I’m watching a high school production… people trying to act mature and of a certain era, but still gnawing the scenery.

And as for women being uncomfortable then- of the women I know who were alive then, most have said there was also comfort in clearly drawn roles and that they had significant support systems. They knew what they were supposed to do and what they were to wear and to them, it may have chafed after awhile, but this was also freedom compared to what their mothers had lived through. They weren’t playing that role through the eyes of someone who had lived through the 70’s etc. They were forming that role with visions of women who had lived in the 30’s and 40’s, etc.

]]> By: cgeye http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14192 cgeye Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:06:19 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14192 Ah, not what would William Shawn think -- what would *Wallace* Shawn think? That there's some good depressive playmaking material, I tell you what. Ah, not what would William Shawn think — what would *Wallace* Shawn think? That there’s some good depressive playmaking material, I tell you what.

]]> By: cgeye http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14191 cgeye Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:02:31 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14191 And Don didn't whiff this week's meeting: He truly didn't want to participate in the he-man woman-hatas executive nookie account pitch, tired of the lies, for a change, or at least tired of the others' glee at putting one over on the wives. As for the head secretary? I hate her, because I know if I were in the typing pool, she'd hiss and spread rumors and hound me until I knocked her on her ass, just so she'd be entertained by the police taking me away in handcuffs. She is bad juju, a woman unfit to dust Jennifer Marlowe's emery boards, and a woman-hating woman of the first swamp-drained water. Sure, she makes internalized misogyny look like fun, but if we cringe at it when Joan Crawford does it, then we need to stay consistent, and distrust any hottie who does it, Girl Gone Wild or not. And Don didn’t whiff this week’s meeting: He truly didn’t want to participate in the he-man woman-hatas executive nookie account pitch, tired of the lies, for a change, or at least tired of the others’ glee at putting one over on the wives.

As for the head secretary? I hate her, because I know if I were in the typing pool, she’d hiss and spread rumors and hound me until I knocked her on her ass, just so she’d be entertained by the police taking me away in handcuffs.

She is bad juju, a woman unfit to dust Jennifer Marlowe’s emery boards, and a woman-hating woman of the first swamp-drained water. Sure, she makes internalized misogyny look like fun, but if we cringe at it when Joan Crawford does it, then we need to stay consistent, and distrust any hottie who does it, Girl Gone Wild or not.

]]> By: Lance Mannion http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14189 Lance Mannion Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:54:38 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14189 Roger Thornhill: I'm an advertising man not a red herring. I've got a job, a secretary, a mother, two ex-wives, and several bartenders dependent on me, and I don't intend to disappoint them all by getting myself slightly killed. Roger Thornhill: I’m an advertising man not a red herring. I’ve got a job, a secretary, a mother, two ex-wives, and several bartenders dependent on me, and I don’t intend to disappoint them all by getting myself slightly killed.

]]> By: Tom K http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14186 Tom K Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:22:40 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14186 That Eva Marie-Saint has remarkable upper-body strength. That Eva Marie-Saint has remarkable upper-body strength.

]]> By: cgeye http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14183 cgeye Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:15:52 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14183 Wolcott, my same suspicions: The war buddy that could ask anything of Don, except to rip apart his life of lies. Wolcott, my same suspicions: The war buddy that could ask anything of Don, except to rip apart his life of lies.

]]> By: Lance Mannion http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14180 Lance Mannion Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:09:56 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14180 For Tom: <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2KAjkS3RD9Y"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2KAjkS3RD9Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> For Tom:

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14177 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:07:45 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14177 You see, of course, how Draper used his "Private Executive Account" to pay his long-lost brother to leave him alone - see, very cleverly, the ad pitch came back to him...oh yeah, that's writing. You see, of course, how Draper used his “Private Executive Account” to pay his long-lost brother to leave him alone - see, very cleverly, the ad pitch came back to him…oh yeah, that’s writing.

]]> By: Tom K http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14176 Tom K Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:05:21 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14176 *There is, of course, more to the story with Draper/Whitman…* Maybe. Or, maybe they'll just cue something by Journey and say, "f*ck 'em all." *There is, of course, more to the story with Draper/Whitman…*

Maybe. Or, maybe they’ll just cue something by Journey and say, “f*ck ‘em all.”

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14175 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:03:36 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14175 A series about monsters, the worst people of 1960. A series about monsters, the worst people of 1960.

]]> By: James Wolcott http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14174 James Wolcott Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:01:41 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14174 Blondie and the kids are going to Cape May. Wonder if I'll see them there next month. Oh wait, this show's set in the past; never mind. The way the scene w/ Adam was played, it was as if he were the Gay Past returning to haunt Don, not some long-lost brother-man. Blondie and the kids are going to Cape May. Wonder if I’ll see them there next month. Oh wait, this show’s set in the past; never mind.

The way the scene w/ Adam was played, it was as if he were the Gay Past returning to haunt Don, not some long-lost brother-man.

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14173 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:00:58 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14173 There is, of course, more to the story with Draper/Whitman... There is, of course, more to the story with Draper/Whitman…

]]> By: M.A. Peel http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14172 M.A. Peel Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:59:40 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14172 All right. That was one nice fake-out. I hate to see people/characters like Adam being crushed by morally bankrupt, evil people. What would have been so wrong to have that nice guy in the family? I'll just wait for Matt to explain in the postlude-- All right. That was one nice fake-out. I hate to see people/characters like Adam being crushed by morally bankrupt, evil people.

What would have been so wrong to have that nice guy in the family? I’ll just wait for Matt to explain in the postlude–

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14170 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:55:09 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14170 Damn, money. Mad men money. Damn, money. Mad men money.

]]> By: Jack Powers http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14168 Jack Powers Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:52:54 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14168 Gun. He's got a gun. Gun. He’s got a gun.

]]> By: steverino http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14167 steverino Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:52:28 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14167 m.a. you are unbelievably prescient m.a. you are unbelievably prescient

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14166 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:52:12 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14166 And now we come to....murder? And now we come to….murder?

]]> By: M.A. Peel http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14165 M.A. Peel Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:51:36 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14165 Is he going to kill him? Is he going to kill him?

]]> By: Jim Tourtelott http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14164 Jim Tourtelott Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:50:18 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14164 Cosgrove's "You lost" was the best line reading of the night. Cosgrove’s “You lost” was the best line reading of the night.

]]> By: steverino http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14163 steverino Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:49:52 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14163 none of this is even vaguely believable...filled with self loathing for sticking with it none of this is even vaguely believable…filled with self loathing for sticking with it

]]> By: Jim Tourtelott http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14162 Jim Tourtelott Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:43:08 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14162 There is a style here, but it is completely unexpressive and joyless. That scene in the office with the wife and secretary typified it. It's like something a bright undergraduate might have dreamed up after attending a couple of lectures on Brecht and Kabuki and an Antonioni double feature. There is a style here, but it is completely unexpressive and joyless. That scene in the office with the wife and secretary typified it. It’s like something a bright undergraduate might have dreamed up after attending a couple of lectures on Brecht and Kabuki and an Antonioni double feature.

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14160 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:41:15 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14160 MA - yeah, dig the "I love when men were men, and women were women" quotes. Kind of validates my male fantasy theory about this series, eh? MA - yeah, dig the “I love when men were men, and women were women” quotes. Kind of validates my male fantasy theory about this series, eh?

]]> By: Tom K http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14159 Tom K Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:40:31 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14159 Well, Giambi wiffed. Well, Giambi wiffed.

]]> By: Jack Powers http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14157 Jack Powers Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:39:57 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14157 I like the way the AMC teasers foreshadow the next spot. It's like a peek into the very-very-near future. I like the way the AMC teasers foreshadow the next spot. It’s like a peek into the very-very-near future.

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14158 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:39:57 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14158 I love that movie. Sometimes I look from our office windows on Second Avenue and look north, and the reflected glass curtain wals - brand new then - remind me of what was modern about North by Northwest. I love that movie. Sometimes I look from our office windows on Second Avenue and look north, and the reflected glass curtain wals - brand new then - remind me of what was modern about North by Northwest.

]]> By: M.A. Peel http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14156 M.A. Peel Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:39:46 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14156 There's a blog on the AMCtv site, and there is so much love for this show, it's truly unbelievable. I think people are projecting a lot of themselves into what they are seeing. That may be a huge part of the strange phenomenon surrounding this summer series. There’s a blog on the AMCtv site, and there is so much love for this show, it’s truly unbelievable. I think people are projecting a lot of themselves into what they are seeing. That may be a huge part of the strange phenomenon surrounding this summer series.

]]> By: Tom K http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14155 Tom K Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:39:07 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14155 Hey, the Yankees have the tying run on deck with 2 outs in the 9th . . . Hey, the Yankees have the tying run on deck with 2 outs in the 9th . . .

]]> By: James Wolcott http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14154 James Wolcott Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:38:36 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14154 Kennedy hadn't been elected yet and they were already having Take John-John & Caroline to Work Day. Kennedy hadn’t been elected yet and they were already having Take John-John & Caroline to Work Day.

]]> By: Lance Mannion http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14153 Lance Mannion Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:44 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14153 Tom, the traffic noise in North By Northwest is exactly what I was thinking about. When Hitchcock gets the bus door slammed in his face, you can hear the street noise, even though, if I remember correctly, you actually can't because the theme music's playing. Hitchcock and other filmmakers back then could suggest sound. Tom, the traffic noise in North By Northwest is exactly what I was thinking about. When Hitchcock gets the bus door slammed in his face, you can hear the street noise, even though, if I remember correctly, you actually can’t because the theme music’s playing. Hitchcock and other filmmakers back then could suggest sound.

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14152 Tom Watson Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:38 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14152 It's the clothes, the undergarments, the poses the heavy make-up - they're physically uncomfy. And it shows. It’s the clothes, the undergarments, the poses the heavy make-up - they’re physically uncomfy. And it shows.

]]> By: Lance Mannion http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14150 Lance Mannion Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:34:26 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/08/17/mad-men-the-debt-to-cary-grant/#comment-14150 <em>why are the women in this series so incredibly uncomfortable in their own skins? It’s unsettling - like they literally can’t stand to be who they are, in the clothes they’re in, in the relationships they have.</em> Isn't that one of Weiner's themes? Life was miserable for women then? We're never going to bump into Donna Reed along the way, of course. But where's Laura Petrie and Sally Rogers? Where's my mother? why are the women in this series so incredibly uncomfortable in their own skins? It’s unsettling - like they literally can’t stand to be who they are, in the clothes they’re in, in the relationships they have.

Isn’t that one of Weiner’s themes? Life was miserable for women then?

We’re never going to bump into Donna Reed along the way, of course. But where’s Laura Petrie and Sally Rogers?

Where’s my mother?

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