Comments on: The Elder of the Two http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/ culture blogging for the good of the planet Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:12:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Andrew http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-124917 Andrew Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:43:52 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-124917 For the record, the exact quote is "'You may WELL wonder what we are doing in your garden' said Andrew, the elder of the two" (caps are mine). It was my yearbook quote in 1989. What I found so funny about this cartoon is the notion that there is an explanation for why these two men are buried up to their heads in this garden. Andrew's expression is one of supreme confidence, conveying that - to him at least - the explanation is perfectly sensible and that he has no doubt that when the woman hears it, she will agree. It is absolutely impossible for us to imagine this explanation and that mystery is so joyfully silly. Kliban writes a check with that line that he knows he can't cash and doesn't have to because it's just one frame. It adds to the humor that Andrew was able to rope another guy into this garden scheme, whatever it is. For the record, the exact quote is "'You may WELL wonder what we are doing in your garden' said Andrew, the elder of the two" (caps are mine). It was my yearbook quote in 1989. What I found so funny about this cartoon is the notion that there is an explanation for why these two men are buried up to their heads in this garden. Andrew's expression is one of supreme confidence, conveying that - to him at least - the explanation is perfectly sensible and that he has no doubt that when the woman hears it, she will agree. It is absolutely impossible for us to imagine this explanation and that mystery is so joyfully silly. Kliban writes a check with that line that he knows he can't cash and doesn't have to because it's just one frame. It adds to the humor that Andrew was able to rope another guy into this garden scheme, whatever it is.

]]> By: newcritics - » One Saturday at Tom’s http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-2700 newcritics - » One Saturday at Tom’s Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:30:39 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-2700 [...] Note: Neddie Jingo wrote an excellent post about B. Kliban back in January of this year. That was my introduction to this wonderful site. I thought I’d share this bit off fluff that I wrote over at my place back in May of ‘06. [...] [...] Note: Neddie Jingo wrote an excellent post about B. Kliban back in January of this year. That was my introduction to this wonderful site. I thought I’d share this bit off fluff that I wrote over at my place back in May of ‘06. [...]

]]> By: Caleb http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-193 Caleb Sun, 04 Feb 2007 11:50:21 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-193 Howdy Folks. I was wondering if anyone had any details on the Eastern re-union that is being held in Moncton in 2007. Cheers, Dan Howdy Folks. I was wondering if anyone had any details on the Eastern re-union that is being held in Moncton in 2007. Cheers, Dan

]]> By: Howard Chaykin http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-141 Howard Chaykin Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:19:14 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-141 I met Kliban--introduced to me as Hap--at the San Diego Comics convention, a few years before it became a mouth breathers bottom feeders media frenzy. I'd been a fan since the NatLamp days, and ended up getting a beautifully executed drawing of the archetypal Kliban cat for my then wife, who for all I know still owns it. I've always been aware of his influence on Larson. Like so many genuine originals in all the creative fields, Kliban worked in comparative obscurity to those who followed him--although he did hit hard with all those cats--while Larson became an icon--operating within a much more conventional and acceptable parameter. Kliban's graphic sensibility was far more sophisticated than any of his followers with the exception of Bill Watterson--and his writing was, as you've indicated, heartbreakingly dead on. I met Kliban–introduced to me as Hap–at the San Diego Comics convention, a few years before it became a mouth breathers bottom feeders media frenzy. I’d been a fan since the NatLamp days, and ended up getting a beautifully executed drawing of the archetypal Kliban cat for my then wife, who for all I know still owns it.

I’ve always been aware of his influence on Larson. Like so many genuine originals in all the creative fields, Kliban worked in comparative obscurity to those who followed him–although he did hit hard with all those cats–while Larson became an icon–operating within a much more conventional and acceptable parameter.

Kliban’s graphic sensibility was far more sophisticated than any of his followers with the exception of Bill Watterson–and his writing was, as you’ve indicated, heartbreakingly dead on.

]]> By: Cold Bacon http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-130 Cold Bacon Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:05:08 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-130 please, tell me more about The Wolf Collection... please, tell me more about The Wolf Collection…

]]> By: Kevin Wolf http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-129 Kevin Wolf Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:10:19 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-129 Much as I consider myself a student of cartooning, I admit to rarely analysing them to this extent. An extermely interesting take, Neddie. I can't find fault with a bit of it. Love Kliban. Don't like Gary Larson at all. I recognized the Kliban influence immediately upon seeing Larson's cartoons and thought, But he's not <em>doing</em> anything with it. I think his stuff is painfully obvious and the same five or six jokes told over and over. But the master's books still remain in the Wolf collection. I was never a stoner and thank god you don't have to be to get Kliban. Funny is funny. Much as I consider myself a student of cartooning, I admit to rarely analysing them to this extent. An extermely interesting take, Neddie. I can’t find fault with a bit of it.

Love Kliban. Don’t like Gary Larson at all. I recognized the Kliban influence immediately upon seeing Larson’s cartoons and thought, But he’s not doing anything with it. I think his stuff is painfully obvious and the same five or six jokes told over and over.

But the master’s books still remain in the Wolf collection. I was never a stoner and thank god you don’t have to be to get Kliban. Funny is funny.

]]> By: archly catlady http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-124 archly catlady Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:51:15 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-124 Good point, Neddie, about the lagniappe of info that creates a new kinda funny being a heritable trait that pops up in the Simpsons (and, op cit, the "Great S & M Amusements" truck that rolls through the parking lot in Billy Wilder's Ace in the Hole). (p>This is a bit of a tangent but Will's reminiscence reminds me of a strip I used to see in Rolling Stone in the early 70s: Earl D. Porker, Social Worker by Mary K. Brown. It went even futher into that brave new blur between the flat and the round but for some reason never got picked up and celebrated (I can't help but blame the author's female name... she later wound up in the chick ghetto of writing kid's books). Anyone remember Earl? Know where I might see him again? BTW, http://www.coldbacon.com/kliban2.html seems to have left the building... Good point, Neddie, about the lagniappe of info that creates a new kinda funny being a heritable trait that pops up in the Simpsons (and, op cit, the “Great S & M Amusements” truck that rolls through the parking lot in Billy Wilder’s Ace in the Hole).
(p>This is a bit of a tangent but Will’s reminiscence reminds me of a strip I used to see in Rolling Stone in the early 70s: Earl D. Porker, Social Worker by Mary K. Brown. It went even futher into that brave new blur between the flat and the round but for some reason never got picked up and celebrated (I can’t help but blame the author’s female name… she later wound up in the chick ghetto of writing kid’s books). Anyone remember Earl? Know where I might see him again?
BTW, http://www.coldbacon.com/kliban2.html seems to have left the building…

]]> By: Cold Bacon http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-123 Cold Bacon Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:44:29 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-123 >HTML rebel in 1997 1998!!! Come on... >HTML rebel in 1997

1998!!! Come on…

]]> By: Jeremy Cherfas http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-121 Jeremy Cherfas Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:48:57 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-121 I was gonna say Ros Chast too, honest I was. And "love to eat them mousies, ..." Nice post Ned I was gonna say Ros Chast too, honest I was. And “love to eat them mousies, …”

Nice post Ned

]]> By: Jason Chervokas http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-120 Jason Chervokas Thu, 25 Jan 2007 05:25:27 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-120 Neddie, nice post. Good to see you here. The third-person caption, an oblique way of delivering a punch line, a real innovation at least in terms of the formal craft of cartooning. But it's interesting, I never thought of Kliban as part of that kind of dead-pan, surrealist, vulgar absurbism that was popular in the late 1960s and the pre-punk 1970s. That style of humor to me was typically mean spirited, hipper than thou, rarely funny (I mean I think Frank Zappa was a hugely underrated musical genius, but a lousy comic; Robert Altman's MASH is unwatchable, etc). Kliban, by contrast, had a loving, gentle quality in his humor that seemed almost midwestern to me (I was surprised to discover he was a native NYer transplanted to Northern California). That tenderness--which I don't really remember in the work of his forebears and contemporaries (like Gahan Wilson) or the work of his offspring (Larson, and to some degree Groening, tho' he turning the single panel into a strip)--sets Kliban apart, I think. I wonder, maybe you know, if Kliban was a fan of Basil Wolverton who of course made a career of grotesque faces. BTW, on the subject of single panel cartoons I highly recommend Roz Chast's latest career collection, hilarious stuff. Neddie, nice post. Good to see you here.

The third-person caption, an oblique way of delivering a punch line, a real innovation at least in terms of the formal craft of cartooning.

But it’s interesting, I never thought of Kliban as part of that kind of dead-pan, surrealist, vulgar absurbism that was popular in the late 1960s and the pre-punk 1970s.

That style of humor to me was typically mean spirited, hipper than thou, rarely funny (I mean I think Frank Zappa was a hugely underrated musical genius, but a lousy comic; Robert Altman’s MASH is unwatchable, etc).

Kliban, by contrast, had a loving, gentle quality in his humor that seemed almost midwestern to me (I was surprised to discover he was a native NYer transplanted to Northern California). That tenderness–which I don’t really remember in the work of his forebears and contemporaries (like Gahan Wilson) or the work of his offspring (Larson, and to some degree Groening, tho’ he turning the single panel into a strip)–sets Kliban apart, I think.

I wonder, maybe you know, if Kliban was a fan of Basil Wolverton who of course made a career of grotesque faces.

BTW, on the subject of single panel cartoons I highly recommend Roz Chast’s latest career collection, hilarious stuff.

]]> By: Neddie Jingo http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-118 Neddie Jingo Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:22:07 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-118 <i>I agree that Larson must have been influenced by Kliban, but he did bring his own slant and style to the genre.</i> Yeah...influence... I've been pondering this question, and I think the better word might be <i>zeitgeist.</i> Dope Humor of the Seventies was all about making stoned people laugh, while the forms that followed later were able to riff on Dope Humor without assuming the reader was stoned... Dope Humor became Dope Meta-Humor, which then filtered into Mainstream Humor, which is where Larson and Watterson came in, ten years after Kliban. Reefer Madness on the funny pages, cheek by jowl with Hi and Lois and the Lockhorns.... I agree that Larson must have been influenced by Kliban, but he did bring his own slant and style to the genre.

Yeah…influence…

I’ve been pondering this question, and I think the better word might be zeitgeist. Dope Humor of the Seventies was all about making stoned people laugh, while the forms that followed later were able to riff on Dope Humor without assuming the reader was stoned… Dope Humor became Dope Meta-Humor, which then filtered into Mainstream Humor, which is where Larson and Watterson came in, ten years after Kliban. Reefer Madness on the funny pages, cheek by jowl with Hi and Lois and the Lockhorns….

]]> By: Will Divide http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-117 Will Divide Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:05:45 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-117 Kliban's first venue, that I remember, was in the old, O'Donoughue and Kenney, <i>National Lampoon</i>. Recall his "Greatest Farts of the Century" panel; or the mother hoisting her little boy up to see a vat full of muck and the "People Who Don't Brush Teeth"; and my eternal fave, the man ordering a fine meal (it included gezpatcho) sitting across the table from an emormous insect, who finishes by telling the waiter "Oh, yes, and bring me some shit for my fly." Franz Kafka meets Lenny Bruce. Kliban’s first venue, that I remember, was in the old, O’Donoughue and Kenney, National Lampoon. Recall his “Greatest Farts of the Century” panel; or the mother hoisting her little boy up to see a vat full of muck and the “People Who Don’t Brush Teeth”; and my eternal fave, the man ordering a fine meal (it included gezpatcho) sitting across the table from an emormous insect, who finishes by telling the waiter “Oh, yes, and bring me some shit for my fly.”

Franz Kafka meets Lenny Bruce.

]]> By: Tom Watson http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-116 Tom Watson Thu, 25 Jan 2007 01:45:22 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-116 I very much enjoyed this perspective, Neddie - that moment in time that allows a larger reading. There's a bit of absurdity there, to be sure - but also more than a spoonful of satire. The elder of the two mindset adds a satirical gracenote - the kinds you can find in the Simpsons, for example. Calvin & Hobbes for sure. And Dylan songs. And yeah, that html is funky.... I very much enjoyed this perspective, Neddie - that moment in time that allows a larger reading.
There’s a bit of absurdity there, to be sure - but also more than a spoonful of satire. The elder of the two mindset adds a satirical gracenote - the kinds you can find in the Simpsons, for example. Calvin & Hobbes for sure. And Dylan songs.
And yeah, that html is funky….

]]> By: The Viscount http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-113 The Viscount Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:29:28 +0000 http://newcritics.com/blog1/2007/01/24/the-elder-of-the-two/#comment-113 Excellent post. I agree that Larson must have been influenced by Kliban, but he did bring his own slant and style to the genre. Excellent post. I agree that Larson must have been influenced by Kliban, but he did bring his own slant and style to the genre.

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